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TOPIC: New Study on ADRCs and heart disease

New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 11 Dec 2014 16:45 #2900

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Fas,

Interested in your thoughts. This study Study is not encouraging for the autologous ADRC model and heart disease.

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New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 12 Dec 2014 04:29 #2902

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Thanks Ray.

Will have a look at the paper later in the day and provide comments after that.

At this point in time I just deleted one of the posts since one was a copy of the other.

As a starter- in my Hardcore article of 2012 reference is made to a study by Harvard´s Diane Mathis, who came to a similar conclusion on obese mice and the lack of certain important cells in fat taken from obese mice, to execute their repair function.

Anyway- I will be back later. :bye:

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New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 12 Dec 2014 07:23 #2904

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This study is not encouraging for the autologous ADRC model and heart disease.


Ray-

My thoughts are that your conclusion can NOT be drawn from this study. It really does not say anything except that certain pathologies have an impact on the potency of the cultured autologous stromal cells i.e. the plastic adherent MSCs.



During my 10 years looking at all this stuff, I never really grasped why all scientists can derive all kind of conclusions by using petri dishes and assume the real world in vivo results are similar to what they see through their microscopes.

Arnie makes more sense- see the first post of last years thread- the heterogeneous populations have not been studied sufficiently to assume what the 2% of stromal cells do is similar to SVF. That cannot be true. Especially if one assume that the bulk -the 37% pericytes or MSC progenitors- are likely the most beneficial sub-population of SVF.
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New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 12 Dec 2014 07:42 #2905

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One should add that from a future perspective- i.e. if further studies come to other results, like divvying up SVF, expose to growth factors- apply gene therapy in a cost effective way or whatever, than the paper provides good pointers

We also have to highlight the necessity of extended investigation of ADSC secretome with the special emphasis on the balance between pro- and anti-angiogenic factors to characterize the individual angiogenic potential of ADSC obtained from patients, in particular, with cardiovascular and metabolic pathologies.
The results of such studies will help to reveal some key factors (like PAI-1) that should be controlled to access the potency of autologous ADSC to stimulate angiogenesis. Another important challenge is to find the most promising targets for the correction of ADSC angiogenic properties before transplantation.
ADSC could be easily modified by gene constructions contained angiogenesis-related factors, thus, VEGF modified ADSC had significantly stronger therapeutic effect on the model of hind limb ischemia. According to the results of our study PAI-1 might be a potential target for modification to modulate angiogenic activity of ADSC obtained from patients with CAD and T2DM.
Another approach includes a hypoxic preconditioning as we showed that short-term hypoxia promoted ADSC ability to stimulate angiogenesis by coordinated changes in pro and anti-angiogenic factor secretion by these cells


Tables in the study had HIGHER levels of VEGF and HGF - the main pro-angiogenic factors from the CAD and DM patients- so the culprit was higher levels of anti-angiogenic factors. Those are conclusions scientists and medical folks can work with to improve results- however does not destroy a basic model IMO. :KO:
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New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 12 Dec 2014 10:52 #2907

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I think in the April 2014 British Medical J, the authors cited 600 discrepancies in the use of stem cells in general for cardiac uses. The clinical studies are mostly big EU trials, sponsored by big pharmas. I think CYTX has the best system for off self delivery of stem cells in a mix environment for patient care. Yet, no one seems to pay attention to the celution systems.

Since the publication of the British Medical J article, I think most big pharmas are backing off the financing of the stem cells trials in the cardiac arena. I think CYTX is smart to recognize this financial dilemma early enough to move into niche indications. Other companies such as NBS and ASTM (now VCEL) may not be so lucky.

I think all the clinical cardiac data are valid to allow overseas registrations and applications (it is safe, practical and could benefit many patients with improved quality of life). For US registration, we need the support of a big pharma to generate more pivotal phase 2-3 efficacy data (per US FDA standards).

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New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 12 Dec 2014 11:57 #2908

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I think in the April 2014 British Medical J, the authors cited 600 discrepancies in the use of stem cells in general for cardiac uses. The clinical studies are mostly big EU trials, sponsored by big pharmas. I think CYTX has the best system for off self delivery of stem cells in a mix environment for patient care. Yet, no one seems to pay attention to the celution systems.


Franshei-

Not sure what you mean with "discrepancies" in the use of SCs for cardiac. Can you explain or provide a link? Thanks

To my knowledge- the only corporate studies of any size come from TEVA/MesoBlast. TeVA is doing CHF with 1720 patients in the US mainly. MSB 225 acute MI patients mainly in Europe. The rest is just the known ones like NSB and VCEL as you mentioned.

However the by far biggest is to my knowledge is BAMI - basically a follow up of REPAIR-AMI with 3000 patients and an "unpatentable" product- one´s own bone marrow, which as a result is mainly sponsored by governmental health care agencies.


The stem cell trial - titled "The effect of intracoronary reinfusion of bone marrow-derived mononuclear cells (BM-MNC) on allcause mortality in acute myocardial infarction," or "BAMI" for short - has been made possible due to a €5.9 million ($8.1 million) award from the European Commission.
The full study involves 19 partners across France, Germany, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Spain, Belgium, Poland, the Czech Republic and the UK. Using bone marrow stem cells to prolong life
A total of 3,000 patients will be involved in the trial to test whether life can be prolonged by administering stem cells from the patient's own bone marrow. The stem cells are injected into the patient's heart within 5 days of suffering a heart attack.
BAMI will test whether life can be prolonged by administering stem cells from heart attack patients' own bone marrow. The doctors behind the study hope that this could increase heart attack patients' survival rates by 25%.


Article: BAMI story

And this all- after TIME , late TIME, FOCUS, FOCUS HF etc etc do not show any impact at all???? :grin: :bash: :bang:

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New Study on ADRCs and heart disease 14 Dec 2014 06:20 #2916

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Not sure what you mean with "discrepancies" in the use of SCs for cardiac. Can you explain or provide a link? Thanks


I came across another Larry Husten article and remembered immediately what you meant...the article that he wrote based on the Darrel Francis study. Forbes article

This guy Francis must a total jerk- to come up with a conclusion like-

There were over 600 discrepancies in 133 reports from 49 trials. There was a significant association between the number of discrepancies and the reported increment in EF with bone marrow stem cell therapy


Is to me an abuse of statistical measurements. :bang:

If anybody wants to have fun with the paper - be my guest... :grin:

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